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How do you "Burp" the cooling system (3S GE)?

Discussion in 'Diagnosis/Help' started by vicdat, Apr 6, 2012.

Page 3 of 7
  1. jwagner162

    jwagner162 Well-Known Member Donated!

    yep freeze plugs just hold water in the block. so only bad if leaking.
     
    jwagner162, Apr 20, 2012
    #41
  2. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    It is possible but you should be able to feel hot gasses if the crack is big enough.
    You have 3 sensors down their, the left one (passenger side) is the temp guage sensor, the middle
    1 is the cold start sensor and the right one (drivers side) is the EFI water temp sensor. It would
    explain why more than 1 sensor is overheating. If this is the problem try placing a piece of sheet
    metal in between the exhaust and coolant outlet to block the exhaust gases from hitting the
    coolant neck. The reason it may be spiking is because when the thermostat is open their may be
    suficent coolant flowing to keep the outlet coolant neck cool but when the thermostat closes
    if exhaust gases are hitting the outlet neck it will heat up quite quickly I would imagine, aluminum
    conducts heat well and exhaust gases are 1200 -1500 degrees so its not going to take much to
    spike temperatures on those sensors.
     
    ST165-2765, Apr 21, 2012
    #42
  3. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    OK so I got the mani out and the crack is in the center, fairly long and extends all the way around. There was a lot of whittish residue...I may not have any alternative than to replace it. So do later 3S-GE's fit and have a better design?
     
    vicdat, Apr 22, 2012
    #43
  4. jwagner162

    jwagner162 Well-Known Member Donated!

    yes, if you look in either mine or stigs thread you can see a gen 2 manifold fitted. but we never got these engines in the us. so there hard to find. stig also just got a "jasma" header. look up 3sge jasma on ebay, there was 2 on there a week ago (an mr2 one will work). make sure you get the collector. but if you need something to get you going a stock cast 3sge mani from another celi would be your best bet. or have yours properly welded.
     
    jwagner162, Apr 22, 2012
    #44
  5. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    Thanx JW
    I'm first going to check into having mine repaired properly...I've got a couple options for that since I work at a large manufacturer with several knowledgable welders.
     
    vicdat, Apr 22, 2012
    #45
  6. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    OK Gang, I just repaired the crack. The welder used TIG with special Nickel rod and did a professional job...as I said before the fissure was pretty long probably close to 3 inches (that's like seven and a half CM for you foreigners...) Anyway I'm gonna try to put everything back together real sano in the next day or so. Keep your fingers crossed that we can finally put this thread to bed!
     
    vicdat, Apr 23, 2012
    #46
  7. Spiderman

    Spiderman Well-Known Member

    7.62 :mrgreen ........... What does the Nickel do in the weld ?
     
    Spiderman, Apr 23, 2012
    #47
  8. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    I don't know the science but most of my research indicates that the nickel alloys help to make the weld stronger and prevent future cracks in the same area. Another thing that my welder stressed was not to use the large heat shield at the top because it holds too much heat in the mani, to let it dissipate heat faster. I'll still use the two smaller shields that protect my new starter...

    Vic
     
    vicdat, Apr 23, 2012
    #48
  9. jwagner162

    jwagner162 Well-Known Member Donated!

    the heat sheild is to hold heat in the manifold. this prevents it from cooling to fast or having something like water splash on it and cool it unevenly. cast needs to cool slowly and evenly to prevent warpage or cracks. im pretty sure the yota engineers put it there for a reason. if i had a cast mani id use it. if you really wanted to stretch the idea the hotter the manifold the better, to maximize scavenging. mines steel and ive used heat wrap to retain heat in it.
     
    jwagner162, Apr 24, 2012
    #49
  10. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    OK JW, I'll re-install the large heat shield when I put everything back together...
     
    vicdat, Apr 24, 2012
    #50
  11. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    So tonight (barring rain here in SoCal) I should be putting the final wrenches to my month-long deadline of my GTS (which I now call "Harry").
    As of now, the things that I have done in search of the perfect "burp", include (but are not limited to): new t-stat, two new sensors, rad flush, compression check (180's), pressure test cooling system (16lbs+), new starter, repair 3" crack on exhaust mani and new studs, clean-up and re-tape electrical looms, service K&N air filter, clean-up cap and rotor, etc, etc...
    Hopefully it will fire right up and not have the temp spiking anymore; the huge crack was definately sending a lot of superheated air over the starter and around the water pipes, sensors and such.
    Wish me luck, Vicdat
     
    vicdat, May 2, 2012
    #51
  12. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    You don't need luck fixing that header crack is probably going to solve the problem.
    I'll hope for good weather though :D
     
    ST165-2765, May 2, 2012
    #52
  13. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    Good weather...Bad news
    I buttoned everything up real clean-like; car immediately fired up and ran smooth and quiet. Let it warm up and drove a few miles in the neighborhood. Rechecked everthing .Fans working, no leaks; all seems well but...
    Drove it again, after a few minutes the temp gauge starts to creep up slightly past half then the dreaded spiking which makes the car run like shit...went home and parked it...
    Back to square one! I need help. Feeling weak..

    Vicdat
     
    vicdat, May 2, 2012
    #53
  14. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    I would test the fan to make sure it is working properly, somebody may have replaced it with
    one from a manual car or it may just be wearing out
    [​IMG]
     
    ST165-2765, May 3, 2012
    #54
  15. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    Both fans are physically coming on. After my first drive with AC off and temp showing about halfway, I shut down engine; when I turned ign on without starting I noticed that both fans came on. With engine running and AC on the fans also came on. I didn't notice however if they came on while engine was running with AC off...Do you think that the fan sensor on the t-stat housing could be the culpret? That's one that I did not replace because I thought that if the fans worked at all then that sensor was OK...FYI the guy at AutoZone insisted a while back that it was probably the real problem.I'm sooo confused.V
     
    vicdat, May 3, 2012
    #55
  16. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    I don't think that sensor is the problem Toyota was smart and used a normally closed relay
    for the fan which means that while the relay is off it sends power to the fan. When the relay
    receives power from the sensor it causes the relay to turn the fan off so I would try unplugging
    the sensor which will cause the fan to run constantly.

    If you do that and the temp still spikes then you know that sensor was not the problem
     
    ST165-2765, May 3, 2012
    #56
  17. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    Great suggestion 2765,

    I'll try that tonight...if that doesn't work I'll put in the replacement temp guage that I got at the boneyard a couple weeks ago.
     
    vicdat, May 3, 2012
    #57
  18. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    I thought you had allready done that, I would do it regardless, at this point it's a matter of elimination so if the second guage
    performs the same as the first guage then we can rule the guage out as being a problem
     
    ST165-2765, May 4, 2012
    #58
  19. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    Yeah 2765 I never got around to tearing apart my cluster since I was so sure (wishful thinking) that the repaired mani would magically add the word "solved" to this pathetic thread...
    At this rate I'll never make the Toyofest in the LBC this weekend (it probably wouldn't be cool to take a Datsun, or a 1966 Matra D-jet 5)

    Vicdat
     
    vicdat, May 4, 2012
    #59
  20. Spiderman

    Spiderman Well-Known Member

    Hey Vic, it's far from a pathetic thread, on the contrary, it's what this site is all about.......... learning and solving issues and there's sure to be lots of people that are reading and following.

    I'm curious to see what happens when you unplug that fan sensor.


    Your getting there and as Dave says, replace the guage to eliminate another possibility.
     
    Spiderman, May 4, 2012
    #60
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