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Discussion in '3sge' started by Redrkt01, Nov 19, 2007.

  1. Redrkt01

    Redrkt01 Well-Known Member

    I really want a 3rd gen 3SGE for my 162, but I'm having trouble finding one. I've heard a lot of bad stuff regarding Toysport and have had a few bad encounters with them myself. Needlesstosay, I'm trying to stay away from them. This brings me to my backup idea of installing a BEAMS motor. The problem with this is that I don't know if I can mate a drivetrain with the tranny. Does anyone know if this can be done with little to no modifications? I have money, but I don't have time to play mad scientist.
  2. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    it's a 3s block so your stock trans will work
  3. Redrkt01

    Redrkt01 Well-Known Member

    That brings me to a new question: I'll need a beefier tranny since the one I have is for the FE setup. What is the strongest tranny I get? I know plenty about engine setups, but nothing about trannys......so if someone wouldn't mind taking a moment to educate me I'd really appreciate it.

    Mafix - thanks for the reply
  4. mephtar

    mephtar Well-Known Member

    from what I know, the GE tranny should be fine. Mafix runs 250+hp through and FE trans if i recall. New clutch system would be good. I read that the beams out put out 160-170 whp anyways
  5. CrazyAchmed

    CrazyAchmed Well-Known Member Donated!

    Mafix is running alot through his FE tranny, and that is the one that has seen more power in the previous car than this current one(to date). It seems to take a beating quite well, and is readily available for replacement.
  6. Dman_23

    Dman_23 Guest

    And that is the key. 8)
  7. wickyman

    wickyman Guest

    Yeah, the red top beams is really cool. It pushes 200hp at the crank, and like 210-215 torque. Your RWHP is going to look at about 160-190hp, depending on the engine... Just like every processor in a computer, the power variables are wide...
  8. Quin

    Quin Guest

    RWHP? :roll:

    Celica = FWD
  9. 86GTMonkey

    86GTMonkey Well-Known Member

    Not the Alltrac...
  10. slow_yota

    slow_yota Well-Known Member

    Real World Horse Power
  11. ST162Coupe

    ST162Coupe Well-Known Member

    Right wheel Horse power, lol (sorry, just had to throw that one in.. but out cars have no LSD, so it could happen, sometimes you take off, and one wheel spins more than the other.)

    Yeah i know most celicas are FF. the Alltrac/GT-Four isnt, and the first 3 gens are all FR.
  12. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    up to 335 whp and 315 tq and still haven't broken the fe trans. i must have a factory built one. i do believe it's a 93+ because i would have blown the syncros to hell by now.
  13. weapon5

    weapon5 Well-Known Member

    So no one get confuse, and correct me if i am wrong. there are 3 type of beams engine.

    Black top
    Grey top
    Red top

    The black top have dual vvti
    the grey have only single vvti similar to the red top expect it is also black but called grey top.
    Many people have brought the grey top thinking it is the black and i do believe the grey and the red do not push more than 200hp.
    just my two cent :D

    also black top are not transverse like our engine but you could retrofit it. also keep in mind these engine are very hard to tune. even adding a new exhaust header will need to re-adjust the timing.
  14. XR Pilot

    XR Pilot Well-Known Member

    The BEAMS swap has been done a few times over here, one guy is also running a BEAMS based motor in an RA40 circuit car pushing around 240rwhp.

    Just to clarify, a few people are getting confused by flywheel -> wheel conversion. The beams are up around 200hp at the flywheel, which equates to roughly 150whp. They can be tricky to set up properly, one of the guys over here had a lot of trouble getting any grunt out of it on the factory computer as it was running in limp mode due to missing sensors. I think he ended up getting it running properly and ended up with 150whp before swapping to ITB's/Motec etc.

    As has been said, there are 3 beams motors. Grey/Red/Black, in order of lowest power to highest. Grey is found in Rav 4's and is listed as 180-190hp or so. Red top came out in ST202 SSII/SSIII Celica's in Japan (could be incorrect on the model codes but it was the top spec ST202). Some came with a factory S54 LSD which is very rare but is THE box to have (almost bought one of these boxes once but was a few hours to late :x). Others came with an E series gearbox which I believe might fit with GT4/Alltrac mounts/shafts etc. The red top also came out in a VERY late model SW20 MR2 in japan, just before they were discontinued production. These motors are listed at 197hp I believe. Then there is the black top beams, which has dual VVTI and is found in the RS200 Altezza in japan in rwd format with a 6 speed gearbox. I don't know if this block shares any mounting points with the FWD blocks, but I think I heard once that this head will bolt to a red top block. These are listed at 207hp at the fly.

    I'd buy a manual halfcut given the choice as I believe that the autos were detuned by some 10-20hp, similar to the late model gen 3's were.

    My 2 cents.
  15. LionTR

    LionTR Well-Known Member Donated!

    Just to add some info from the BEAMS:

    The GreyTop is almost the same as the RedTop. The main difference is its more economical exhaust header. GreyTops are quite rare but cheaper as the RedTop, and if you swap the header, it would produce 200HP like the RedTop. Most of the GreyTops came with auto tranny though.

    The RedTop (or at least 90% of them) has a newer model of the S54 tranny, with LSD and triple sinchro-rings. Every single RedTop i saw for sale had the tranny on it.
    The starter motor is placed on the tranny.
    I had manual 1.gen 3SGE stock, and I use my stock axles with the RedTop.
  16. 87gtspower

    87gtspower Well-Known Member

    this seems to be being done in greater frequency. what issues are there with wiring as they seem to bolt up okay. just curious

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