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Project "What the hell have I gotten myself into?"

Discussion in '3sge' started by Kiasis, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. Kiasis

    Kiasis Well-Known Member Donated!

    Car: '88 Red GTS w/ 3SGE, 5-sp, cruise, AC, leather, sunroof, no rust (CA)
    Mechanical background: Basic – “the oil goes where?â€
  2. Youds

    Youds Well-Known Member

    wow nice job so far, thats the best way to learn. i would help if i ever got that far. i do plan on doing that before i build a nice car when i get a new job (taking apart and engine completely) so keep it up, hopefully some questions can be answered
  3. Celic_GT2

    Celic_GT2 Well-Known Member Moderator Donated!

    it looks to me like you have quite the daunting task ahead of you, first off, there should be zero play in the mian bearing caps, as they are torqued down, a plastigauge works well. but only @ the proper torque for the cap. if you spun the crank DONT re-use bearings... they are fucked they wont seat and the crank will just spit them out again. measure the crank in 3 spots an the main journals (kinda like a peace symbol) then subtract the difference you get. this will determine if the crank is out of round or not. use a standerd 2" micrometer or vernier caliper.
    the piston you said you pulled out, if the ridge is chipped or anything, the compression rings wont do their job, the piston wont seal (will burn oil)
    you can get je pistons for about $$4-$$500.00 they will take whatever that stock ge will throw at them. that head gasket cant be reused, once the haed has been cracked loose the gasket wont seal again, as it has already been torqued down. i wouldnt reuse the piston rings. just hone the block, and use a telescope gauge or an inside micrometer with the same idea as the man bearings to check for out of round. do it at the top, middle, and bottom to check for taper as well. hot tank the block too, it will clean everything out of it. it is a good idea to replace the water pump, (since its apart anyways) oil pump should be good to reuse. to clean water jackets, just hot tank it, (any carquest or machine shop should have one) any scoring on the cam lobes, like any... means dont reuse the cams. any dark patches indicate a high reved engine, and the oil pump cant get oil to the top of the engine, thus overheating the cams. if you can polish them, reuse them if not new set. as for the valves, a good socket and a hammer will get them out (spring compresser must be used for re-installation) lay straght edge rulers in an x on the block to check for warpage. ge and gte engines have the combustion chamber partially in the block (thus no zero deck clearence) find a full engine gasket kit (with head bolts) you said the head bolts were not torqued down? if thats the case then the head may be warped. there is a specfic order they need to come off in to prevent warpage.

    steering rack, replace its only 2 bolts to get off, and tie rods of course.
    brakes. the pistons were not level in your calipers because there is always a residual presure in a braking system. if the square lip seals were in good shape (seal around the piston) and they look in good order and are not too rotted, they can be reused. dont rebuild stock calipers are like $$ 40.00? even i have a spare set. always replace two at a time, with any braking part. what you do to one side do to the other, or your life on parts will go way down... if you can dont use eibach lowering springs... they suck... if you can afford them try tien... i dont have a link, but if you have the cash pick up any import tuner mag. it will have numbers somewhere for poly mount bushings. and yes LABEL EVERYTHING... keep every item even bolts bagged and organized. i hope this helps you a bit man. good luck with your engine.

  4. alman162

    alman162 Well-Known Member

    wow good resonse Jon!!

    this is a very interesting thread... will be following it closely!
  5. sr5punk

    sr5punk Well-Known Member

    hmmmm so this is where you have been. that is totally cool that you are taking this head on. iwish i had the space, time, money and knowledge for a rebuild. i need to do some maintenance to my 4g. just got my bgb. so excited. anyways maybe one of these weekends i can come bother you and you can show me your progress on the rebuild. and possibly have a mini sac meet. hahaha!
  6. Kiasis

    Kiasis Well-Known Member Donated!

    Thanks all for the support and good advice. I think I'm mostly on track, but probably managed to bust the piston myself when it dropped off the crank (I hadn't reamed the ridge yet and suspect I caught the ring on that, causing the piston to chip - damn). I'm making calls today to get prices for all the hot-tank and block/head testing. We'll see how Sac, Ca compares to the rest of the world for that work.

    Sr5punk - time, money, and knowledge? I don't ever remember claiming any of those..... All I admit to is space and a stubborn streak!

    Got my plastigage yesterday, but by the time I got home and did the chores, I'd choked on enough smoke for one night. Heard this morning that we've got 82 fires burning around the state. Nothing compared to what you folks in Australia have had to deal w/ (sister and bro-in-law are in Melbourne) but bad enough.

    Anyway, thanks again, all. I'll keep you posted regarding progress, set-backs, etc.
  7. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    So Any updates after two weeks?
    I got a spare 3S-GE sitting in my garage atm i'm thinking of rebuilding, not sure if i wanna rebuild or just tidy up and put back together, I want the learning experience but don't have the cash for parts and tools, got heaps of time and a lil bit of space but no cash, makes it hard doesn't it.
  8. Kiasis

    Kiasis Well-Known Member Donated!

    Well, due to things like moving, business closure, and life, this project got back-burnered for quite some time. Here's what I've done to date:

    Rebuilt top and bottom
    New pumps and timing gear

    Replaced R&P steering

    New struts, springs (lowering), strut mounts, and FastCam bolts

    New everything (calipers, pads, rotors, SS brake lines)

    New rad, hoses, thermo, etc.

    Rebuilt injectors (Witch Hunter)
    New filter
    New platinum plugs
    New wires
    New TPS

    Installed all new silicone hoses - red to match exterior color:)

    Rewrapped much of wiring harness

    Finished reinstalling everything
    Flushed all fluid systems and refilled using Royal Purple (break-in oil, coolant ice, power steering fluid, and 75-90 tranny fluid) and DOT 4 brake (complete flush, bleed, and fill of brakes and clutch).

    At midnight, turned key and ... it started. Smoked for about 10 minutes as some of the spilled fluids I missed on the 'wipe-up' burned off and then I went for a five miles test drive. So far, so good. Everything worked, everything seems very smooth. Don't know if it's Royal Purple, or just new fluids, but shifting and steering was much better. Brakes and cluth, much smoother. Now I have to behave myself for the next 500 miles while I wait for everything to break in and properly seat itself.

    Now the real test - will it finally pass smog?

    Thanks to all who have supplied an invaluable about of assistance and encouragement over the past year and a half. Believe me, if I can do this, ANYONE can do this!!
  9. Celic_GT2

    Celic_GT2 Well-Known Member Moderator Donated!

    seems like you have been busy!! get some pics up of the rebuild!!!
  10. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    holy moly. very nice sir. indeed post some pics!
  11. Alwayzsidewayz

    Alwayzsidewayz ST162 Guru Donated!

    jeepers!! thats some big work! we need pics!!
  12. Kiasis

    Kiasis Well-Known Member Donated!

    I didn't do my due diligence to the site and don't have that many pics of the work as it progressed. Some, but probably not enough - sorry. I'll have to find the special place I save them on my computer and get them posted.

    I do have two post-op issues I need to address. On start up, it almost sounds like the starter is not quite seated properly. I get a bit more noise than I used to. No grinding, just not sounding as smooth. I didn't MP grease the flywheel or starter gear - should I?

    Other 'thing' is when I come off the throttle, I get a louder engine noise that almost sounds like an exhaust leak. I'm not convinced I have the correct size cat gaskets, although they came straight from Toyota. They don't fit within the pipe inset, but rather extend a bit onto the flange around the pipe. They are crush gaskets, so I thought perhaps this was the design, but now I wonder if that's causing the louder noise. I don't get it on acceleration, no matter how hard I accelerate, only when I let off the gas. If I engage the clutch, it lets up. I thought that may be an improperly seated clutch, but wouldn't I get something on acceleration, too? I have no other clutch or tranny issues - everything shifts very smoothly and I've never had a slip. Plus, I'd rather replace a couple ill-fitting CAT gaskets than go back into the clutch (it was a new clutch about 1,000 miles before the engine blew). Coming off the throttle, would I get more back-pressure that may account for the noise?

    Thanks - and pics to follow when I have time to find them.
  13. Kiasis

    Kiasis Well-Known Member Donated!

    Next update: I've got to stop listening to dealership people. Because I've found numerous misprints and errors in the BGB, I decided to check with three different dealerships regarding what tranny fluid I needed. The BGB calls for Dexon II (ATF) and the Hayes World says pre-89 is Dexon II and post-89 is 75w-90 gear oil. After getting 'confirmation' from three parts departments that I should be using 75W-90 and the BGB had subsenquently 'been updated', that's what I did (Royal Purple 75W-90 at $16/pint).

    Then I started getting this tranny noise. I tracked down a Toyota Master Mechanic from a few years back that seemed to know our older cars, and he said the noise sounded like a new tranny in my future. I then asked if the wrong fluid could cause the noise and he said 'absolutely.' So, he spent about 15 minutes accessing several databases and at first thought 75W-90, but then concluded the BGB/Hayes Manual is correct and pre-89 must use Dexon II. He said the viscosity differences could account for the 'backend noise' when I let off the throttle. He didn't think I had screwed the pooch using the wrong fluid, especially since it's only going to be in there for 100 miles, so I really hope it quiets down tomorrow.

    So, $50 of RP 75W-90 down the drain, and $36 of RP Synchromax goes in tomorrow. IF that works, still cheaper than rebuilding the tranny - BUT, I should have asked here first before blindly trusting three parts counter guys at Toyota dealerships. Lesson learned....
  14. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    good looking. sounds like that is your issue. obviously in my car its different but for the GE i would think dex 2 or light syncromesh.
  15. Kiasis

    Kiasis Well-Known Member Donated!

    Well, it's better, but I think I've got a tranny swap in my future (some time after I pass smog). Still got the backend whine coming off throttle and some vibration I expect will only get worse, not better. Any suggestions on where to get a remanufactured one? I've been searching the web, but haven't come up with much except used. If that's my only choice, I'll probably take a crack at rebuilding mine. Suggestions on rebuild kits?

    On another note, guess I couldn't escape my first engine rebuild unscathed. I'm seeping some oil around the oil pan gasket, so guess I didn't do a good enough job with the FIPG. It's not bad - doesn't leave spots or register on the dip stick - but figure I might as well button things up tight when I do the 500 mile oil change, especially since I don't want any unmeasured air screwing w/ my emissions test.

    My gasket kit came with a cork OP gasket, but I opted to stick with the BGB and use the FIPG. Any thoughts on if I should try again, or just go to gasket (or both)? If gasket, do I need to do anything to account for the thickness of cork, or does a bit more clearance not matter to the oil pickup and strainer?
  16. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    thicker application of fipg. it's a PITA to do and messy but it'll work. make sure to let it sit at least 6 hours before adding any oil.
    as far as the trans go just swap one in. i do not think the rebuild parts are available anymore. and nobody i know of remans them.
  17. Alwayzsidewayz

    Alwayzsidewayz ST162 Guru Donated!

    I have tried to find re built boxes here in the UK, but the cost was just mega.
    Hope you can get the leak sorted, its just a pita.

    Still want pics mate, want to see the fruits of all your really hard work. :D
  18. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Yeah, echo that

    Refurb price I got was $1500 for the manual and $2000 for the auto

    Cheaper & better to buy a 202 box with better syncro's?

    You sure you didn't damage something when you put the shafts back in?
    - sounds like a crownwheel shimmy you got there?
  19. Kiasis

    Kiasis Well-Known Member Donated!

    Hey, no trying to jinx me with busted drive shaft parts... What is the crownwheel, anyway? I can't find reference to it anywhere. Are you using some of that fancy down under language that only my sister and bro-in-law from Melbourne understand:)

    I've heard that other tranny's will fit. Is the 202 a direct fit or would mods be required? If not the 202, what should I look for?

    The right drive shaft was a bit difficult (sticky) to fit in, but I tried to be careful and use more MP grease rather than force it - but perhaps I did do something bad there.

    I'll stick w/ FIPG again and use a lot more!!

    Thanks all.
  20. Celic_GT2

    Celic_GT2 Well-Known Member Moderator Donated!

    i believe he is referring to the ring gear. .

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