I love this head thread because it's easy to understand......... I know a bit about heads but not in the league of you tragics. Hey Stig, you see those retainers on the right valve, is it best to 'set' them so they're not touching like the one on the left or does it not matter......... I'm being pedantic but hey, if we are talking Micrometers for a 'perfect fit' ?
Which pic are you referring to? The shims need to be set to a 0.15mm gap on the inlet and a 0.20mm gap on the exhaust or the valves don't operate properly and - a) it's either noisy as hell or b) if the gaps are too small it will burn all the valves away Thats 1/5 of a millimeter and I dare you to try drawing a line that thick
Im going to do some searching, if I cant come up with a head here in a reasonable amount of time Id like to do the swap with you. This way I can just put the stock ones in and do the measurements correctly and order the right shimless ones. I just need to cut my losses and get this right so I can move on. There is a car show in June for fathers day that Im trying to make. My father(who builds street rods) and I always go down to this. My goal is to make it to that. Its been 5 years since I showed his 31 model A with 500 Cadillac motor what a boosted 4 banger can do to it. Also, after I thought about my statement of just having one bucket, I realized that wouldnt work out so well because I would have to take the cam out for every valve. Which would be dumb and alot more work.:lol2
The best would be 8 buckets and a variety of shims, but we'd need a ballpark size as your valves may be at the small end of the spectrum or the large end and Toyota no longer has shims for the gen1 heads. The shims I was able to buy new cost me $18ea here, which is more expensive than you guys pay for the shimless type
Great thread I will try to add a few notes regarding shims- shim less buckets are great for engines that frequent over 7400 rpm, otherwise I wouldn't bother. They are about 30% lighter, but make doing valve adjustments on street cars a pain in the ass. Most of the cylinder heads I build end up with custom cut shims as cutting the valve seat for say a 3angle valve job seems to set the valve further into the head requiring a smaller shim to make up the proper clearance. The other way to do it is to take all your measurements and cut back on the valve tip. I stay away from the latter method on race engines as the vavles tips are heat treated and not something I would cut into VS cutting a shim backside which is not treated. Setting valve clearance to tight is just as bad as too loose. In my experiments you can tighten up the intake side a bit to gain a intake valve faster pop off, but the exhaust side on a turbo motor especially requires proper factory clearance possibly a little on the loose side for a motor that will run a hotter exhaust. My personal car has them on the tight side but we keep the exhaust really cool with lots of fuel. Mod at your own risk.
I keep forgetting you need gen2 stuff, the gen2's should still be available as it's the same as late FE's. (86-) Interesting is that the carbed FE's also used GE gen1 small buckets and shims with small profile cams but switched for the injected motors around 1986. Each successive gen of the FE motor has better heads, cams, pistons, manifolds but I don't see anyone upgrading them
Ok so Im going to pick up an FE head today. I just happened look at something, the BGB shows factory diameter of both the GEN2 buckets and I looked up the FE buckets and its roughtly 28mm The supertech ones I have are 31mm and fit snug but do slide right down in. 3mm is a pretty big difference to be off? WTF? Am I missing something?
I have an '89 FE head just sitting around. I've cleaned it up real nice. And I don't need it. Want it?
I discovered this when I was ripping out parts of a 88 camry. I pulled them out, then went to snag some shims out of a 95 and saw they were bigger. So I just pulled the set of buckets out of a 95 looked from what I was assumed was a 5SFE(It was marked 2200). I also grabbed a second set of shims out of 94 just to have some extra sizes. If anyone needs a set of 5S cams I got those, they made me buy the cams along with the buckets.
Thanks, but Ive since discovered a 3SFE does not have the same size buckets as the 2nd gen 3SGTE. You have to go to a 5S head.
the way i did it was i ordered the smallest shimless bucket. then i installed it and measured 16 times. then i ordered what i needed.
Ok. So I got all the buckets and shims cleaned up today from my wrecking yard adventure. Sorted out each shim by size. Now I can do the install on each cam and get my measurements for the shimless buckets. So the conclusion today is that 5SFE buckets and shims will work in a GEN2 head 3SGTE head. Which Camry's are a dime a dozen so getting shims and buckets isnt that big of a deal. Now my next question which threw me off today. I have a 5th gen(1990) BGB for an All-trac. I guess I assumed that 5th gens were fitted with the Gen2 GTE. But from my reading this morning as this book shows the 28mm buckets not the 31mm as the Gen2's have. So this leads me to believe that at least 1990 Gen5 All-trac ran a Gen1 GTE. So does anyone know are the torque specs the same on GEN1 cam caps to the GEN2's? The BGB shows 14ft-lbs, I cant imagine that it would be much different. But with my luck lately it could be different. Also, I have a nice set of installed once Supertech shim under buckets for sale or trade....:driving
That's how I built up my shim collection... plus the 4A/4S shims for my gen1 buckets, beware of the 5E, 4E etc - they look the same as the 4A, gen1 etc but are too loose in the gen1 buckets. Even the 4A buckets differ from 90- or so, I think Toyota opted for larger cam lobes across the range at that time as well as increasing the flywheel bolt sizes/patterns.. That book must be wrong, I've never seen/heard of a 5th gen with a gen1 head but then you guys got them with 4A engines too? Torque setting should be the same. I checked and the Gen1 GE/FE/GTE & Gen3 GE/GTE are all 14ft/lbs Would love those buckets but will have to save pennies 1st, have you got a pic of the inside of one?
Yeah, dont know unless the 1990 All-trac had a carry over just because it was the first year of the change to the new body style.. Id like to get my hands on a BGB or at least a supplement that has a GEN2 GTE in it. Thats why I bought this book, so its really worthless at this point. As far as the buckets go, Id like to get 250 out of them I paid a little over 300. Ill knock 50 off for my stupidity. Maybe we can do some trading and cash. Im looking for a set of GT-Four tail lights. I think they are similar to the All-Trac where they are ribbed or something like that. Ill get a picture of them next time Im out in the garage.
if you don't sell the supertech set, i'll buy it but not until the end of this year. you'll have to remind me much later about it. 28mm ones i assume?
