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Super Red is my fav

Discussion in 'Your 4th Gen beauty' started by 88st165, Nov 22, 2008.

  1. rev_head

    rev_head Well-Known Member Donated!

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    bigger sway for autox is good regardless of tires i reckon, even front wheel drives become to taily let alone a car with power actually goin to the rears lol.
    hows about some autox footage :D
     
  2. Alwayzsidewayz

    Alwayzsidewayz ST162 Guru Donated!

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    It really does depend on several factors, I a suprised that you did not suffer any noticable increase in understeer, happy for you :D but kinda suprised.

    My current tyres R888s
    http://www.toyo.co.uk/productdetail.php ... duct_id=18
    Are great but super sticky, as Mafic says this made my issue worse. Funny enough on the road with my road tyres I found the car really good.
    The surfaces I race on also vary, with the last race and next race being on mixed surfaces with, gravel, mud and uneven surfaces, I think this is where the front arb was compromising my handling, as the front end was struggling to get grip on lower grip surfaces.

    On the race track surfaces, the front whiteline bar will work really well, but I am not sure I can be bothered to keep swaping it over with the current prop.

    Lets see some race footage :D
     
  3. 88st165

    88st165 Well-Known Member

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    Thanks guys! 8)


    During the event my front tires were screaming for traction. Im almost positive in my case that better tires will help with the understeer rather than make it worse. The parking lot the event was at isnt the best surface either, lots of tiny rocks, but the path gets cleaner as the day goes on haha. I will be getting better tires soon but not r888's b/c I cannot afford them at the moment. I will most likey end up buying hankook rs2's again as they are a decent sticky street tire but no where near the grip of the r888's. I think also that our cars respond different because our suspension is setup not exactly the same.

    My mods:
    whiteline front swaybar
    whiteline rear adj swaybar (stiffest setting)
    racingbeat endlinks
    intrax springs (switching to TRD springs soon, then maybe megan coilovers over the winter)
    kyb agx's (full stiff all around)
    whiteline/superpro poly bushings in front (including anti-lift/caster bushings)
    whiteline front strutbar (stock one also still inplace)
    whiteline rear strutbar
    battery in trunk on passenger side (helps with weight distribution I suppose)
    3/16 total toe out in the front (bad for tires but good for turn in, good thing I dont rive this car daily haha)
    forgot how much camber im running
    (I have a complete rear setup waiting to be installed including poly suspension bushings, supra sphericals, mario nylon subframe bushings)






    Enjoy my slow runs haha. first event of the year for my so Im super rusty. I think I forgot how to turn. I had 9 runs total but the videos are basically the same. There was a variety of cars at this event from an acura nsx, audi a8, full size 96 impala ss's, camaros, sti's, evos, vw r32, mr2s, miatas, etc. I was the only celica let alone an alltrac haha.




    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. 88st165

    88st165 Well-Known Member

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    After looking at the results I didnt do as bad as I thought. I was one place away from getting a trophy and everyone ahead of me had some nice sticky tires. I ended up 4th place in Street Tourning X (STX) class. Now if I just had some better tires I would have won something lol. Oh well theres always next time.
     
  5. Alwayzsidewayz

    Alwayzsidewayz ST162 Guru Donated!

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    Real nice, you have a very similar set up to me bar different springs and the adjust piillow ball mounts I run.

    Have you tried the car with the rear bar set to medium?

    The R888s are just great once upto temp, very high levels of grip, just crazy compared to road tyres. need careful heat management to get the best from them though.

    Your car looks very similar on track to mine, bar prob I now have a little less roll with the whiteline flat out springs.

    I think driving styles may have a influence on how we cope with the sway bar too.

    we have similar plans for future mods too, I will be seam welding the rear subframe, before re bushing it all and adding the Xtrac rear diff, I think that in both our cases this will help the rear control, I find with the current old set up, the rear gets loose and can be hard to keep in a progressive slide. Sticky tyres dont help either, i think making the worm components more obvious.

    Good driving though mate, be cool one day to be able to take both cars out on track.
     
  6. 89celicagt

    89celicagt Well-Known Member Staff Member Super Moderator Donated!

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    Niice looks like sooo much fun :twisted: keep at it, you're 1up on alot of them w/ AWD 8)
    -K
     
  7. rev_head

    rev_head Well-Known Member Donated!

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    nice 1st one looked uber clean car looked quite stable to, 2nd one was lol
    i love seeing the 4th gen put to motorsport, i should do a few more khanas in mine for the hell off it lol
     
  8. 88st165

    88st165 Well-Known Member

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    Yea I wish we were closer b/c I would like for you to drive my car and see how the small differences in our setups feel on the track. I really want a LSD for the rear diff. I find it very difficult to keep the back end sliding out on power, though it does it just fine in the rain haha. Cant wait to hear how it works on your car.


    It is very fun. Autox is a cheap form of racing and you dont have to have uber mods to be competitive. My 21y/o car is faster than these new evos and sti's and that makes my day!



    Yea thost werent my fastest runs but you really couldnt tell a 1 sec faster from watching the vids so I just posted those. What is khana?
     
  9. rev_head

    rev_head Well-Known Member Donated!

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    motorkhana, like autox except really small and tighter. Rarely ever go out of 1st gear and lots of handbrakies
     
  10. 88st165

    88st165 Well-Known Member

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    Ah ok like gymkhana. I dont think I would very good in those tight technical courses. I prefer a faster course where I can really whip the car around. I tend to spin out in dramatic fashion at the ends of fast slaloms often lol.
     
  11. Alwayzsidewayz

    Alwayzsidewayz ST162 Guru Donated!

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    yeah from talking to the rally and track guys the rear LSD will really help with keeping the rear sliding in a more progressive manner.
    The std diff is very gentle, and as you say fun in the wet, but I think the fact that only one wheel can lose traction at the rear makes dry sliding tough.

    would love to swap cars, bet the different turbo set ups make a difference too. what size off power band do you have?

    You would find the biggest difference is the gearboxes, as the 205 one I run makes a huge change from the long geared 165 one.
     
  12. 88st165

    88st165 Well-Known Member

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    Yeah i really want an LSD but Im just waiting to come across one for the right price.

    Hmm not sure on my powerband, I never had the car on a dyno. (4WD dyno time is really expensive and I dont want to risk blowing the trasnfer in 2wd mode) I think the biggest difference is that you are running standalone ecu and Im still on the stock one. I bet your throttle response is alot better.

    I thought the 165 gear box was the shrotest ratio of the 3. I would love to get a 205 trans but mainly b/c mine is starting to grind 3rd gear pretty bad at high rpm.
     
  13. Alwayzsidewayz

    Alwayzsidewayz ST162 Guru Donated!

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    Gearbox info for all models,


    GT4 gearbox list
    E50F1 86-87 Japan spec. ST165 (locking diff)
    E50F2 (2 is usually dropped) all 87-89 ST165
    E150F ST185, USA versions
    E151F ST185, in Europe and Australia.
    E152F ST185 rally, (Japanese version).
    E154F ST205


    All ST165 - 185 - 205 Gearboxes are 5 speed manual
    Gears E50F2 E150F E151F E152F E154F
    1st 3.583 3.384 3.583 3.230 3.384
    2nd 2.045 1.931 2.045 2.041 1.913
    3rd 1.333 1.333 1.333 1.518 1.258
    4th 0.972 0.972 0.972 1.258 0.918
    5th 0.731 0.731 0.731 0.731 0.731
    Reverse 3.583 3.545 3.545 3.545 3.545
    Final drive ratio 3.933 4.285 3.933 4.285 4.285



    According the EPC, the gearbox internals of the facelifted Celica (ST185, after no. 15446) are the same a the CS versions, but the transmission case is still listed as E150F??? Don't ask me why, I don't know.

    There should be four Japanese ST185 gearboxes. The normal 4.285 89-91 gearbox, the Rally gearbox (E152F) with different ratios, the RC box (3.933) and I (RD) *believe* that after 91 the standard car also got the dual cone RC synchros.
    Not sure on that.

    The 205 box is a lot stronger as well, My old 165 box started to complain, but as I had a slipping clutch it was never really too much of an issue.

    Yeah the ECU makes a masive difference, I have to stick to the stock turbo housings for my calss regs, otherwise I would go the Garret route. I am hoping with the GE cams I will be able to extend the rev range a little, Mafix reckons that I will see a decent improvement, and its a cheap upgrade.

    The big drawback with the ecu is the cost though :( I could have bought another car for the cost of it.
     
  14. 88st165

    88st165 Well-Known Member

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    Good info on the gear boxes. Any issues with the speedo cable when going to a 205 trans?

    You are running the Haltech right? You have to do the wiring yourself correct? I want to eventually go with a standalone in the future but right now Ill have to settle for stock :(

    The ecu cost more than the car? Haha wow, not unless you are counting the hours of tuning also.
     
  15. Alwayzsidewayz

    Alwayzsidewayz ST162 Guru Donated!

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    with the 205 trans, all I did was swap over the 165 mounts, 165 speedo drive and the clutch mc and everything was sweet. Very easy swap tbh, when you have the engine etc out.

    The haltech does not come supplied with a 165 loom, only 185 or 205, so I got the 185 one and a spare 165 loom and the garage made up a 165 loom for my car, that was a pain, but I wouldn't do it, as I hate wiring.

    The unit alone cost me £1200 delivered to the UK inc taxes, my car orginially only cost £1500!! :shock:

    Add in mapping etc and it does get a bit costly, I was lucky in that my sponser did all the mapping, so a lot was done out of hours. I have just got the car back from a total re map, to suit the new intercooler, and he spent 2 days on it.
    In total I think the car has seen over a week on the Dyno.

    I went for a high end unit, not top market, but known quantity, as too many people in the UK have had issues with the cheaper solutions such as the Link G3 etc
    To my mind, control the fueling, ignition etc as good as possible, and you can do a hell of a lot even with a stock motor, plus an ecu, you can always buy a diff harness and use it on a different car.
     
  16. 88st165

    88st165 Well-Known Member

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    Quick update:

    Always, I was recently tempted into goint with a megasquirt/microsquirt ems for really cheap as my buddy does custom wiring at his shop. Too bad it was just the wrong time as I have no money to spare right now. Some day Ill get to that level.

    Im still lovin the front whiteline swaybar. Just recently got and installed some Megan racing coilovers. They are great so far and a big improvement over the intrax/agx setup I had. Have not yet autoxed on them yet. I have also picked up some Toyo RA1's. Still need to get them mounted on my other set of team dynamics wheels before the next autox event. I did however find an interesting clearence issue with the whiteline rear swaybar. It contacts part of the chassis on the passenger side. I just had to bang in a half inch of clearence with a BFH and its good. This was an issue on both my 165s b/c they were lowered, suprised I never noticed before. That is all.
     
  17. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    the megans should be sweet on the course but horrid on the road. really stiff from my research. hopefully you'll get the ecu done. should be a major improvement. good to see updates from you. i've found that the higher end guys (you, me, rich, liontr, ect) don't update much because we seem to be at the big money part of our projects.
     
  18. 88st165

    88st165 Well-Known Member

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    The megans are pretty decent ride on the street with the damping close to full soft, it actually suprised me how good it was. Keep in mind that a "good" ride is always subjective and I was running the agx's on full stiff all the time and alot of people said that it was too harsh of a ride but I liked it. I want to go with a standalone really bad but I need to address other issues like intercooling first. I need to finally get rid of the stock top mount and actually use this front mount core I have had sitting around. Just need to buy the raw piping bends, tack it up at my house, and tig it all at school. That will be the next mod over the winter along with other things. I totally agree with you on the frequency of our updates. Lots of money involved plus lots of testing to be sure it was money well spent lol. By the time the post has been updated we've had the parts on our cars for several months now. I think thats why the updates are few and far between.
     
  19. Alwayzsidewayz

    Alwayzsidewayz ST162 Guru Donated!

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    Good news on the coilovers, :D I tried to get a set to work for me at a crazy cheap price, but they just were too different. (st182units)
    I want a set off coilovers, however I am concentrating over the winter on a bit more power for 2010. The FMIC will be a big help for you. If you can weld its sooo much easier.

    Agree on the updates, I have so many events that I am attending, that I cannot take the car off the road for the time to do everything I want, Been busy collecting parts for mine, cannot wait to get the rear subframe and suspension all bushed up, will make a huge difference I think.

    Going FMIC, also means less weight at the front end, always a good thing too for Autocross work. Interested to know how you get on with those tyres too :D
     
  20. 88st165

    88st165 Well-Known Member

    Re: celica o0o0o0o

    Went to the drag strip this past weekend. Ran a 13.6 @ 105 which was a slower time than last but a faster mph. Last time it was around 80* and this time it was 50* and I guess it didnt help too much. Only gained 1mph at the trap but ran .2 slower. I left my shitty street tires at 35psi but it didnt feel like I had any traction issues though I could be wrong. Oh well Im happy with how the ct27 treated me over the years but it obviously doesnt have the topend Im looking for. Time to install the turbo kit me and my buddy built with the garret 57trim. Im hoping to run atleast a 13.0 with that setup in conjunction with the front mount. Now that I think of it, it might actually be the stock 165 intercooler that is holding me back alittle. Im cramming 18psi through it and I suspect that it might be way past its limit for effectivness.

    Havent autox'ed with the new coilovers yet. Dont think I will be able to this year bc there is one event left and I wont be able to make it. I wish I could report back a review about the megans but that will have to wait till next year.
     

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