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gen 1 to gen 2 GE head???

Discussion in '3sge' started by rev_head, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. rev_head

    rev_head Well-Known Member Donated!

    hey guys
    if i was to put a gen 2 head on the gen 1 block i have 2 questions
    1. would i retain the same dizzy or are they different?
    2. spark plugs. are they the same or different?

    thanks guys
     
  2. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Gen2 dizzy is different inside but the Gen1 should fit no problem, not sure if the plugs are the same?
    Spark Plugs are the same

    Should get my new gen2 head etc soon $ we can compare notes.
    I love the look of the gen1 but fitting bigger buckets etc to run better cams
    is expensive

    Did you get the whole motor?
     
  3. rev_head

    rev_head Well-Known Member Donated!

    just getting the head. much more cam options and from what iv been told by Tristan at WTFauto (toyota motor genius) so long as you have good valve springs they dont even bother with buckets.

    he reckons they have been running race 3s motors with 272 cams with 10+ mm of lift in gen 2 heads with stock buckets and BC or HKS springs with out any problems for years
     
  4. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    or keep what you have and use TODA cams.
     
  5. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Lift on the gen1 head is severly limited by the small buckets and shims
    [​IMG]

    I'm in agreement with you Rev, your friend is right. Seen a few stock heads break springs at high revs lately
    and suspect they may all be getting old
    [​IMG]

    Any wild cam will work with the gen1 head provided you don't exceed 8-8.5mm? lift and use new springs

    more here - http://st162.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=6934&p=104841#p104841

    I'm looking at fitting the later buckets to the gen1 head but like you will probably
    just switch to a gen2 top end
     
  6. Coupes only

    Coupes only Well-Known Member

    Plug is different on gen 2 dizzy still 4 wire and wireable to gen 1 harness direct colors
     
  7. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Thanks, I'll cut a plug from a dead ST182 next time

    Ideal head for us is the Gen2 GTE, it has all the befefits of the gen2 plus
    has T-VIS.
    Also has lobe cutouts for the cam which the gen2 GE doesn't have and the cam caps are thicker
    [​IMG]
     
  8. celicaman

    celicaman Well-Known Member Donated!

    Intresting...those valve lifters look like mine but i have no other first gen to compare it with
     
  9. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Looks the same but lifters, springs are bigger
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Coupes only

    Coupes only Well-Known Member

    Does the gen 3 3sge have Better internals than gen 2 if so I'm going to build a Frankenstein
    Gen 3 block/head and gen 2 intake/exhaust Mani to lack egr But use gen 3 ecu.

    Possible ?? Advise??
     
  11. Coupes only

    Coupes only Well-Known Member

    And gen 2 injectors are bigger so I would switch em up allso
     
  12. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Yes, with gen2/3 you can do pretty much whatever you please.
    Gen3 has a different sump, cams, pistons but pretty much the same
     
  13. Coupes only

    Coupes only Well-Known Member

    So wouldn't be worth the gain?? Allright I'll stick with gen 2 .
     
  14. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    the lift is not limited by the head design. it is limited by spring and valve clearence. any good cam designer will say the same. the gen 1 uses the same springs and buckets as both the 7mg and the 4ag. and i've found cams that are up to 11.1mm lift for the gen 1.

    the only advantage (n/a) is see in the gen 2 is the larger ports. which are not as good for a turbo car but better for a n/a car
     
  15. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Disagree Mafix. the gen1 won't allow Gen2- cams without breaking something

    Here's a grafic explanation - that's a 5mm gap on the vernier
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    While the science is complicated, the later gens use a much larger profile to gain an extra 1-2mm in lift.(and more accurate timing)
    So the 5mm difference you see here is mainly due to the larger profile

    11mm :banghead - what spring do they use?
     
  16. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    i'm not trying to say gen 2 cams will work. they won't. but you can get cams made for a gen 1 for damn near the same price as off the shelf gen 2 cams.
    and yes toda made a race cam for the gen 1 ge that was freaking nuts. nearly never closed the valve. but those motors reved to about 13K rpm.
     
  17. celicaman

    celicaman Well-Known Member Donated!

  18. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    I think he means the F3 spec cams, utterly useless for road use.
    Remember also that race engines get complete overhauls at set intervals.
    Anyone who attempts 9mm or more on 20+yr old springs is courting disaster
    in my book!
     
  19. Seank90

    Seank90 Well-Known Member Donated!

    i thought it was common sense to buy new spring when you get cams for safety....
     
  20. jwagner162

    jwagner162 Well-Known Member Donated!


    - :roll uhhh...yeah.... :roll
     

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