Another NO SPARK issue

Discussion in 'Diagnosis/Help' started by The3sgtestarlet, Feb 2, 2012.

  1. The3sgtestarlet

    The3sgtestarlet Well-Known Member

    This has got me absolutelly confused at what is wrong. The car was running fine last time i had it started, months ago, now it doesnt start.

    I have Fuel
    I have compression
    I have NO SPARK


    In the ON position, 12v power has been tested and confirmed at the ECU, COIL and IGNITOR. When i crank the engine, the multimeter picks up like 12 volts on the coil output to the dizzy. When i hold the high tension wire, i get no jolt, no spark still. I'm stumped.


    Is the coil rooted, or what about the ignitor.
     
  2. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Judging by the number of coils dying in the last year or so, I'd swap that out 1st
     
  3. Seank90

    Seank90 Well-Known Member Donated!

    +1 on coil
     
  4. The3sgtestarlet

    The3sgtestarlet Well-Known Member

    I put in a coil from a toyota starlet gt, a coil that i used previously and was in working order. The coil is identical to the celica, still no spark. I just cant understand why there is no spark. I had the car running perfectly last time it was running. The car was not started for months, and yes, new fuel was put in etc, not the issue.

    There is no way in hell im going to spend $220 on a 2nd hand ecu. Its just crazy. im so pissed, i may buy a complete aftermarket ecu.
     
  5. The3sgtestarlet

    The3sgtestarlet Well-Known Member

    Would i be able to use any bosch type coil, like a coil pack type, but just 1.
     
  6. The3sgtestarlet

    The3sgtestarlet Well-Known Member

    I used a coil from a RAV 4, same as celica, but probably with different numbers printed on label, and still no spark.

    No idea if its the spark or dizzy, but why would dizzy fail from nowhere.
     
  7. The3sgtestarlet

    The3sgtestarlet Well-Known Member

    Resistance on the primary side of the coil showed 1.3 ohms, so is that no good. This result also showed on my starlet Gt coil, so yeah, im confused.
     
  8. The3sgtestarlet

    The3sgtestarlet Well-Known Member

    Reporting in.



    With the ignition in the ON position, neg and pos side of the coil is energized with 12v. Is that normal. Both sides? Like i could understand with the positive side, but why also the neg side.

    Secondly, when i crank the engine, the positive still has battery power, but the neg side voltage drops to like 0.** volts.
     
  9. Seank90

    Seank90 Well-Known Member Donated!

    did you check dizzy
     
  10. 1fstgts

    1fstgts Well-Known Member Staff Member Administrator Moderator Donated!

    Primary of IGN coil should be .40-.50 ohms. 1.3 is close, which could just your meter, or dirty contacts.
    Secondary of the coil should be 10.2-13.8 Kohms.

    Resistance of the Signal Generator (Pickup Coil) 140-180 ohms. G1 to G- , G2-G- and NE to G- should all net those readings.

    I would say the Igniter module. They are junk. Also, make sure you replace with the same part number.

    Also check to see if there is voltages on IGT-E1 on the ECU during cranking. Should be around .7-1.0V
    If you dont have this, then it points to a BAD ECU.

    Lastly, since it did work at one time...Toyotas are known for crappy grounds and/or having grounds go bad. You could have a ground that is now oxidized and not making good connection. Make sure that your grounds are all good especially the ones out in the engine bay. If one is not so great or open then youll have issues. You should read less than .2 ohms from what ever point that refers to ground to the Negative of your battery. The closer to zero the better.

    If you need a 3SGE ECU I think I have at least one good lying around and sure as heck dont want 200 bucks for it. Maybe around 50 shipped priority mail to you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  11. The3sgtestarlet

    The3sgtestarlet Well-Known Member

    Reporting in.



    I checked for voltage on IGT during cranking and there is none.
    I checked for voltage on E1 and there is voltage.


    So this means the ecu is cactus. Would there be any blown circuitry componants that i could identify, or is it a silent killer. So just to clarify, this means the ecu is fudged cos its not sending any signal to the ignitor?


    Thanks for this little check 1Fstgts, now i can narrow down exactly the culprit.
     
  12. 1fstgts

    1fstgts Well-Known Member Staff Member Administrator Moderator Donated!

    Wait, just to make sure Im understanding this correctly, your taking your negative(black lead) and connecting it someplace on the chassis ground and taking your positive(red lead) and connecting it to E1 and getting Voltage? Maybe I didnt clarify that the measurement should be red lead to IGT and black lead to E1. However this may have been a blessing in disguise.
    E1 should be connected to ground and have absolutely no voltage on it. This is telling me that the E1 ground is probably open or has a bad connection. E1 ground from the ECU is actually connected to the Intake Manifold. Right in the middle by the valve cover. I would check to make sure that this connection is good and clean.

    So, if this is this open then your ECU is probably ok. It just has no ground.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  13. The3sgtestarlet

    The3sgtestarlet Well-Known Member

    oops my mistake, i took the reading from E01 and not E1. Both E01 and E02 show small voltage, which would be normal as its power ground etc.


    I disconnected the plug to the ignitor and tested voltage at IGT, still nothing, no voltage, so it appears now that the ecu is indeed rooted, aye.
     
  14. 1fstgts

    1fstgts Well-Known Member Staff Member Administrator Moderator Donated!

    Id still double check that ground. I just find it hard to believe it up and quit. But could very be. Ill have to go digging through my boxes and see what versions of ECU I have if your interested.
     
  15. Spiderman

    Spiderman Well-Known Member

    :iagree

    And if need be, 50 clams delivered for a working ECU is a bargain :thumbsup:
     
  16. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    Check your ignitor and make sure it is properly grounded to the car body, an ungrounded ignitor is probably
    the most common reason for 4th gens not getting a spark
     
  17. The3sgtestarlet

    The3sgtestarlet Well-Known Member

    All ground points have been unbolted, sanded back with sandpaper and re tightned, this includes where the ignitor bolts to the firewall.


    I really doubt the dizzy is faulty, since there is no signal from the ecu going to the ignitor, i guess it has to be that. If i cant find a ecu locally, i would really appreciate if i can get one from you folks.

    I used 3 different coils, same result, so that means the coils should be fine. I used another ignitor, still no spark, so it should be the ecu, how it failed, i hnf idea.
     
  18. Seank90

    Seank90 Well-Known Member Donated!

    is the ecu giving a signal?
     
  19. The3sgtestarlet

    The3sgtestarlet Well-Known Member

    From IGT output from the ecu, as expected, no, no voltage or signal.
     
  20. 1fstgts

    1fstgts Well-Known Member Staff Member Administrator Moderator Donated!

    Well, unfortunately its pointing to a dead ECU at this point. I did check, looks like I have 3 of them. One for sure is good because I marked it "ok" so I remember going through all my ecus way back in the day and checked them.
     

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