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gen 1 3sge cam duration limits on oem ecu

Discussion in '3sge' started by Hazzmac92, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. Hazzmac92

    Hazzmac92 Well-Known Member

    hey guys
    I am going to be swapping my gen 1 3sge head for a gen 2 3sgte for a gen 2 mr2
    i thought that throwing some cams in while im at it may be a good idea.

    thats where my question begins
    been looking at 272/264 but being a toyota it'll have the same limitations and my 4age corolla 264/264.
    will be running cam gears

    next question is, Port polish 1mm oversized valves a 0.3mm head gasket and port matching manifolds
    are they really worth doing ?

    insight or experiences would be much appreciated
    thanks in advance.
  2. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Don't waste time on valves or radical porting, just get the ports smooth, imo the ports on the stock GE are overkill, but the GTE is an improvement.
    This is why removing the T-VIS results in a loss of torque.
    GTE cams are crap, you will need GE gen2-4 cams or better, these motors run fine on 280 deg cams.
    Gen1 and gen2 heads use different cams, buckets, shims
    Matching manifold and exhaust ports is always a good idea, also cleaning up welds inside the exhaust ans getting better flow.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  3. Hazzmac92

    Hazzmac92 Well-Known Member

    Alright thanks heaps
    found cams for a gen 1 head

    You stated 280 degree cams
    I'm going to guess aftermarket ecu is required for them to run ?

    If so what is the largest degree cam I can run on a gen 1 ecu ?
  4. fernandocelica

    fernandocelica Well-Known Member Donated!

    I have 280 deg cams and did not have a problem with ecu
  5. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    ECU doesn't care about cams, all it does is supply spark at TDC and try to supply the right amount of fuel.
    Cams influence c/r, balancing, breathing, torque etc and the wilder the cam the worse that becomes.
    ie putting in a race cam in a road car will result in tears and bad consumption etc

    An engine is a sum of it's parts, changing one part doesn't always show the benefits it should, many race teams have found out the hard way that a restrictive exhaust/mani/port etc will actually make a wilder cam seem worse or lose power

    There is no magic formula and this isn't a topic that can be explained easily, the only real answer is research and dyno testing

    Teams also use different cams on different tracks, depending on the type of track - a cam that suits one type of driving will not suit another

    For me the correct answer is to make the motor stronger and retain it's original characteristics for best overall performance but we all know the more power you make, the harder that becomes.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  6. Hazzmac92

    Hazzmac92 Well-Known Member

    thanks heaps guys
    so your running the 280 degree cams, any supporting mods regarding fuel system, does the idle sound lumpy at all haha

    as for what it will be used for, just mountain passes (touge) so not fussed on the bottom end power
    bought the car with gte conrods and crank along with a forged/ standard comp ratio piston installed

    but thanks again steered me in the right direction
  7. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    GE/GTE rods and crank are identical
    N/A and turbo are way different, in a n/a the cams and exhaust work in unison,in a turbo things are very different and for a long time it was believed that turbo cams needed to be "short" and "steep".
    In n/a even identical exhausts don't yield the same results due to uneven welds, muffler restrictions, kinks, timing etc
    It's a topic even the experts agree to disagree on

    For "scratching" on mountain passes I disagree and believe torque is more important than a peaky motor,
    Fernando has a GTE, not much use to your application
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  8. Hazzmac92

    Hazzmac92 Well-Known Member

    Oh alright idk what the block did but a toy mods member built the motor for the previous motor saying factory forged internal

    my old sx rolla had 272/264 and it loved the mountain passes being a 4age less torque
    not to mention I always used the higher revs

    now knowing that I can successfully run 272/264 with the head work suggested along with headers and increase exhaust piping size from 2 inch to 2.5, and supporting mods like injectors adjustable fuel pressure reg larger fuel pump, radiator and drivelling mods like a cusco diff and rebuilt box I should be happy as long as I get 120 - 130kw atfw

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