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Converting 3sge to Carby

Discussion in '3sge' started by shmickmik, May 2, 2008.

  1. shmickmik

    shmickmik Guest


    Ok i really like my st162.. but due to owning so many different carby cars, it really irritates me having all these sensors and what not sitting under the bonnet that may go wrong, and when they do drastically effect the running of the car.

    I am used to carbies and it looks as if i will always stay that way.. :p

    What i wanted to know is, has anyone converted their 3sge to carby before?? Any links or pics would be greatly apreciated!

    I would have to get a manifold made up/adapted to fit amongst other things, but this makes me feel a whole lot better knowing that by doing so, ill be getting rid of a whole lot of things that can (and will) **** up later on.

  2. rye

    rye Well-Known Member Donated!

    I think that would be a LOT of work and probably cause a lot of problems that you're trying to avoid by doing it which pretty much makes it not worth doing...no?
  3. cannon

    cannon Guest

    definately possible but i think you should just do a bit of research on what all the sensors do etc lol and all of the unfamiliar engine parts, i agree with you that carbys are easier to work with, but fuel injection is the way of the future.. all it is is a little extra electronics here and there lol.. its good to see a member from sydney good on ya for buying a st162 mate

    good luck if you decide to go ahead with it it would be a good project but thinking about it it would rquire a lot of work lol i see a quad barrel holley celica on its way!!! :twisted:
  4. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    you can do it with 2 carter or weber side feeds but finding the carb that'll fit would be a nightmare. you will probabily have to make 4 flute manifolds and use 4 carbs and if you know carbs tuning that will be an absolute nightmare.

    now on the flip side i would love to see you do this.
  5. shmickmik

    shmickmik Guest

    Maybe i should try changing the thread title to Converting 3sge st162 to weber Thats what i had in mind lol

    I came across this site : http://www.fraser.co.nz/Engine-Options-16


    700 just for the manifold or adaptor
    1600 with the weber's included
  6. dan1_721

    dan1_721 Guest

    Would there even be enough room against the firewall!?
  7. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    No, its RWD. You'd fit downdraught IDA's though with a new manifold

    As an ex electronics tech, I know enough to be very, very afraid of EFI

    I have a 3sfe carb setup and looking at fitting it onto a gen 2 GE head, I prefer Gen 1 but the manifold is a pain to hack & weld with 8 intakes & tvis
    May end up using a highly modified FE head, GE pistons and this dizzy with it's enclosed coil

  8. Celic_GT2

    Celic_GT2 Well-Known Member Moderator Donated!

    on a semi side note, my 89 corolla was a carb'd car. i know she had the 4a-fe, but perhaps you could make an adapter to make the runner profiles line up and just swap the intake mani. just a thought.....
  9. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Once I get the Gen1 GE stripped I'll probably end up doing just that.

    Am I alone in thinking the Gen2 head looks boring?

    Another plan is to build a 1700cc FE motor using a 4S block, pistons and the spare GE crank. Crazy? - I want to see if it's possible to do 1000km on a tank of 91 RON and still have some power.
  10. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    don't know why you are scared of efi. i love it. much prefered over carbs for me.
  11. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Try fixing a stuffed ECU or blocked injector in the middle of the night 500ks from the nearest town...

    You been lucky!
  12. birgernator

    birgernator Guest

    i dig this idea. i have seen it a bunch of times on the 4age guys
    (http://www.geocities.com/ae82power/FAQ-carbs.html or http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/inde ... opic=75341)

    But i agree with mafix there is nothing wrong with EFI. On a related note. Has anyone tried a standalone ecu on their N/A motor? I have been looking at the megasquirt as just a fun project, and the Celica is a looking like a great candidate right now. My only purpose in the project would be to do it and learn a little more about engine management. But it might make cams or high compression work.
  13. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Agreed - there is nothing wrong with EFI, - till it goes wrong!

    Ever seen what happens when a fuel line cracks, an injector O-ring fails? How many times has the motor been rough only to find a faulty sensor, blocked filter or blocked injector.

    The math is simple, a 4 stroke motor is a simple device and the more you add onto it, the more chance there is for something to go wrong. I come from the days when we tested motors on the workshop floor with 2 wires to a battery and bottle of fuel. I made a lot of money in the early 90's towing EFI vehicles out of the desert in Africa, with an old Datsun kingcab!

    The Celica has one of the best EFI systems ever fitted to a car - any system that can last more than 20 years has got to be good! Try finding a 20yr old Opel or VW with a perfectly running original EFI system?

    Early 12A rotaries had 2 points dizzy's that simply couldn't handle 13 000 rpm for long periods, MSD made a lot of money out of guys like me.

    I have been collecting 3SGE ECU's and the scary part is that nearly all show evidence of previous repairs to the boards.

    I plan to keep the EFI in place alongside the Carb, until such time as I can use it to feed hydrogen into the motor reliably and tell the oil co's to kiss my hairy ass.
  14. XR Pilot

    XR Pilot Well-Known Member

    I'd have to agree with Mafix on this one. I've worked in a performance workshop for 12 months where one of the things we specialised in was EFI diagnosis and aftermarket fuel injection systems, and I have to say that yes, while o rings and sensors fail etc it was fairly rare, and it was VERY rare for an actual ecu to fail. We had a fair bit more work from carbies that were rough running, flat spots etc than from fuel injection problems. More often than not, as you have said, fuel injection problems were related to either bad sensors or ignition modules, however this was usually limited to optical CAS (crank angle sensors) and GM DIS (or whatever it was called) - of which Celica's have neither, instead using a more reliable 24+2 style NipponDenso reluctor style pickup.

    To me, the prospect of having small jets that are easy to block, a tune that changes with altitude and seasonal variations (and that will always be compromised in some form, I don't care what you say you'll never have a tune as spot-on in as many situations as well tuned EFI), and more seals and problems to go wrong (I will concede that not all carbs are complicated) is enough to turn me away from carbs. Not to mention the expense, the tuning costs alone would be me off after trying all the jet combo's. Before someone mentions it too that quad's webers or whatever make more power than efi, search for ITB injection - Individual Throttle Body injection. I'll propose this question - why did the 2L BTCC supertourers with massive budgets, pushing every last HP from the motors (We're talking 300-320+ flywheel HP from an NA motor rev limited to 8500rpm) use fuel injection, not carbies....
  15. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    gen3 = no tvis. nice setup but will not work for us guys with tvis. unless we make a custom lower manifold. but then the ports will be all screwed up.
  16. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    There is no question EFi makes more power, those FWD touring car motors also had the inlets switched to the front to force feed the manifolds.
    I've seen plenty of EFI cars sold because the owner coud'nt afford a new ECU, check the prices on Alfa and Opel.
    I've seen plenty of EFI cars that had altitude issues, not everyone has access to fancy test equipment and I just want something simple that I can tune myself. Even multiple carbs are easy to tune with a vacuum gauge and a good ear.
    Alitude is no longer a problem for me as NZ (and OZ?) is pretty flat.
  17. XR Pilot

    XR Pilot Well-Known Member

    Not all the cars had the inlets switched, but yeah the Toyota's did. The head is revered 180 degrees on those, with all the timing gear idler + tensioner mounts etc rebuild on the other side of the head. They use slide throttles as well instead of butterflies. Not to mention the Camry (94-95? May be based on a Carina, not sure) from what I've heard had the the whole body cut away from the unibody and lowered. Not exactly "production" 8)

    I wouldn't doubt that Alfa and Opel EFI is dear, that holds for all there parts though, right? :p I will agree with the fact though that carbies are infinitely more accessible for diagnostics and tuning than EFI for the average backyarder or mechanic, however my preference is always going to be efi.

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