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Swap questions!

Discussion in 'Diagnosis/Help' started by PazzwordJDM, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. PazzwordJDM

    PazzwordJDM Member

    image.jpg image.jpg Hi guys, new to the forum and really Toyota in general (former Honda guy), I picked up an 86 GT hatchback with 94,000 original miles recently, the car has been restored and repainted, its on B&G lowering springs and has 15x8.5 Drag wheels (coilovers coming soon) and has a no name exhaust.

    Unfortunately though, it has the worthless 2SE and its the slowest thing I have ever drive in my life! I am looking into a Beams 3SGE out of the 6th gen Celica. My questions are:

    1. Will this engine bolt to my old 2SE transmission?
    2. What mounta do I need to use?
    3. If I cant use my old trans what axles will I need to use the third gen 3s trans?

    i'm really just wondering what Ill need to do the swap besides the engine, harness, and ecu.

    ***On a side note, WHO MAKES COILOVERS FOR THESE CARS!
     
  2. 4thgenceli

    4thgenceli Test Dummy

    I am looking into a Beams 3SGE out of the 6th gen Celica. My questions are:

    1. Will this engine bolt to my old 2SE transmission?
    Yes, it's still an 'S' series motor so it'll bolt up to your transmission without a problem. You'll need to use the Beams flywheel and pressure plate and the 2se clutch disc.

    2. What mounts do I need to use?
    Your mounts should work just fine. It wouldn't hurt to replace them with new ones though (or go poly inserts for the front/rear mounts)

    3. If I cant use my old trans what axles will I need to use the third gen 3s trans?
    You can use your old transmission, just not sure if it'll hold the power. You may be better off getting the transmission/axles from a gen4 with a 3sge motor (GTS trim).

    i'm really just wondering what Ill need to do the swap besides the engine, harness, and ecu.
    That'll get you started. You'll probably need more, but that's a good starting point.

    ***On a side note, WHO MAKES COILOVERS FOR THESE CARS
    5th gen Megan coilovers for the ST184 have been custom fit.
     
  3. PazzwordJDM

    PazzwordJDM Member

    Ok man thanks for the reply.

    So the Beams 3sge is basically a bolt in swap? The mounts from the 2se will work?

    I'm finding the beams engine, trans, ecu and harness for just over $1100 pretty much everywhere I look, So I think I'll get it, put the motor on my current trans and see how it performs, if the trans cannot handle it I'll sell the 6th gen trans and source a 4th gen and axles. Thanks so much for the info! I've been searching forever!
     
  4. TRD Ferguson

    TRD Ferguson Well-Known Member

    get a 1MZ. Lighter, cheaper, more powerful.

    more work though..... and requires at least the gts driveline as mentioned
     
  5. eNtraxGT88

    eNtraxGT88 Well-Known Member Donated!

    if you get the beams, DONT get a S53 GTS transmission. the starter is facing the wrong side of the transmission and your exhaust manifold will be in the way. same reason why your 2SE transmission won't work.

    I would say just use the transmission with the beams, or if you don't get one with it, you can use a S54 from either a camry/celica 5SFE (5th/6th gen). The starter is in the correct location with either S54 or beams trans, and you'll just need to use 4th gen GTS axles.
     
  6. PazzwordJDM

    PazzwordJDM Member

    So if I get the beams with the tranny I cant use my 2se axles but I can use 4th gen 3sge axles?
     
  7. eNtraxGT88

    eNtraxGT88 Well-Known Member Donated!

    I have never actually seen a 2SE axle. If it's like the 3sfe (it has 6 bolts that attach to the tranny) then no. if it's just a spline with a clip at the trans end, maybe.
     
  8. TRD Ferguson

    TRD Ferguson Well-Known Member

    This is incorrect.

    The S53 differs from the S54 ONLY on the internal gear ratios. The S53 and S54 have functionally the exact same casing. S53 starters, will work on S54, and of course the other way around.

    The transmissions with the starters facing the other direction on the 3S-FE motor are the automatic transmissions.

    The S53 and S54 use the same axles and have the same mounting points, so you can use pretty much any celica axles with the exception of the All-Trac axles which are too short.

    Additional information that might be helpful:

    The starters from 87-99 will pretty much all fit with a few exceptions, so grab the lightest one. I am currently using the 1MZ-FE V6 starter (to start a 1MZ mounted to an S54)

    Shift linkages are not interchangeable between the S53 and S54 by themselves. They are paired to different shift knobs. The correct cables mated with the correct shift knobs will work on both the S53 and S54 without issue.

    MR2 transmissions that are from the N/A version of the MR2 will also work and have the cable mounts built into the cast of the transmission. A celica cable/shift knob pair will be required to use an MR2 transmission as well as the celica shift levers and linkage from an S53/S54. Also this will result in a large hole in your transmission you will need to fill.

    The E153 transmissions (celica all-trac [less the transfer case], camry 1MZ-FE V6) will also work, however they require thicker axles and slightly different mounting points.

    Finally gear oil is preferred by many in the S53, however I actually ha issues running MT90 and when i replaced it with generic ATF, it worked much better.
     
  9. eNtraxGT88

    eNtraxGT88 Well-Known Member Donated!

    Incorrect on both points.

    S54 on the left, S53 on the right. To clarify, the S53 comes from the 1986-1989 Celica GTS 5 speed 3SGE; whereas the S54 comes from 1990+ Camry and Celica 5 Speed with the 5SFE.
    [​IMG]

    S53 starters are engine side, where S54 is above the transmission. EVEN if you drill a hole in the S53 transmission to fit an S54 starter, the TEETH are wrong. the S53 starter is one of a kind, it has more teeth than the more common S54 starter (same style of starter as the aforementioned 3SFE, 1MZ V6, etc)

    Regarding the automatic transmissions: I owned 2 3SFE cars, one automatic, one manual and they are on the same side (above transmission). in fact, i used the same E153 1MZ starter in both cars (and I swapped the same starter onto my S54 as well)

    Regarding the shift linkages, they are interchangable. when swapping from one transmission to the other, simply swap transmissions...

    2SE (engine side)...ignore green box:
    [​IMG]
    3SFE (above transmission):
    [​IMG]
    3SGE (S53) (engine side)
    [​IMG]
    3SGE (with a swapped S54) (above transmission):
    [​IMG]
     
  10. TRD Ferguson

    TRD Ferguson Well-Known Member

    So wait, just to clarify, that 3S-FE has the starter above the transmission, what year car is that?

    I am a little confused as my endurance racer started as an 89 GT, with the 3S-FE and what I assumed was the S53 transmission. Its starter rested above the engine and worked great.

    Once we blew that up we grabbed an S54 off of an MR2... blew that up and grabbed an S54 off a 94 Celica GTS. So perhaps my 89 GT came stock with an S54? I still have all three of them sitting in my garage, and i thought one was an S53, but I could be wrong.

    Anyway, the shift cables and shift lever are what i was talking about. You cannot use the shift cables from a 5th gen without also using the shift lever that is mounted in the 5th gen car. They do not line up completely for a direct swap into a 4th gen. I also know this from having 3 sets of cables and two shift levers sitting around this project.
     
  11. eNtraxGT88

    eNtraxGT88 Well-Known Member Donated!

    I honestly don't know what are the different names between the 4th gen 3SGE transmission and the 4th gen 3SFE transmission. From what I've heard they are BOTH named S53, but they have different gear ratios and starter location.

    In short, the only weird one is the 4th gen 3SGE and 2SE transmission with the starter on the engine side.

    I think the confusion was which transmission we were referring to as the "S53" transmission. I've always just called the 3SGE transmission S53 while I called the 3SFE transmission simply "3SFE trans" LOL...
    The 2SE should be a S51 transmission (super long 5th gear)
     
  12. PazzwordJDM

    PazzwordJDM Member

    Ok so say I get a BEAMS 3SGE with trans, wire harness, and ecu and choose to use all of it. What axles would I need to use, what mounts, what linkages, what all would I NEED
     
  13. eNtraxGT88

    eNtraxGT88 Well-Known Member Donated!

    st162 3sge axles, i'm not sure what mounts are on the 2SE, st162 3SGE mounts will work for sure. linkages stock.
     
  14. JDMst162

    JDMst162 Member

    Hey i was just wondering how'd the swap go? I'm looking into following this path and already booked up a custom wiring harness for after the engine is in. I have a '89 GT 5spd with 3SFE with over 390k on the Odometer.
     

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